is it behaviour or training?

[organikmom]

Since I am home recouping, I have been watching Animal Planet and Ceasar. Idid not realise how many training styles there are. Benny is in school with an"old school trainer" no treats for sit, stay. How do you know what is better? Also he is a bit barky. The trainer says to use apple spray. I see Ceaser identify barking as either aggressive or nervous, etc. How much of this is training VS puppy behaviour? Will some of this calm down after neutering? I don't want him to be yappy but he gets really excited around new dogs. I put the gentle leader on for a walk and my neighbors thought is was a Hannibel Lector device:lol2::lol2: and promised me they would never use it to walk him. It does calm him down and help with training. how will we know the temperment our fluff will have? Also he is a chewer so we are constantly redirecting him to chew safe things. But he is SWEET.:D I really wonder about this, Do I have to much time on my hands?:lol2:

[Morkie4]

Toby was very aggressive with other dogs but would run from people after the initial charge at them but he would never bite. So we went through some classes using the gentle leader and it worked as far as control and not letting him bite another dog but near the end of the second class, we changed him to a choker and that did the trick. By the end of the third class, he could stay in position off leash between other dogs and not make a sound or movement of aggression. Time, patience, repetition and verbal rewards go a long way in training. I also feel there is not reason not to reward with treats as well but it is a personal decision to do so. We never rewarded with treats in class but I did when outside class.

I have taught all of mine the "no barking" command and while it took a good bit of time with training four at once, it paid off in the long run! I am also a frim believer in being the Packleader rather than let any one of the fluffs decide they are the head of the pack. I never hit a dog for disobedience but do correct firmly when needed. They are quick leaners and doesn't take them long to realize who the leader is and they are so eager to please. I have had to do the submissive roll on two of my fluffs at various times and even then you have to be fully commited in following through to the end. Of course mine are all under 11 pounds and so aren't difficult to handle.

But I think having Puppy attitude is fine but training is still in line for Master Benny. He is just excited to see a fellow fluff! But with time and training, patience and persistance..........with tons of love and rewards (whether verbal or food) is a key to training. Hope this helps!

[JesBred]

Time, patience, repetition and verbal rewards go a long way in training. I also feel there is not reason not to reward with treats as well but it is a personal decision to do so.

I am also a frim believer in being the Packleader rather than let any one of the fluffs decide they are the head of the pack. I never hit a dog for disobedience but do correct firmly when needed. They are quick leaners and doesn't take them long to realize who the leader is and they are so eager to please.


I completely agree with Carol

When we got our first dog, Jake, we used the "old school" training. It took us over a year to realize it wasn't working. He was constantly trying to be "pack leader" and purposely disobeying us. Thats when we switched to treating and high praise, ignoring bad behavoir and teaching him that WE are the pack leader not him.

Jake is over 75 pounds and Im 115 on a heavy day so he can drag me around very easily. When my husband deployed, Jake acted out SO BAD and even bit me. I started ignoring Jake when he acted out and only praised him when he did the things I asked of him correctly. He is also a BIG barker (one of the breed characteristics) so when he would bark without me commanding me to I would ignore him completely (I know, hard to do) and eventually he began to ignore those "barking triggers" just like I did. He also knows the command "speak" so "no speak" was easy to teach.

There were so many times that I had to put him in a submissive position like Cesar does (Cesar is my hero). I NEVER laid a hand on him or gave him any command to do so though. Not everyone beleives in it but it helps me show him that I have the control in this house without using force. I also had to make him "earn" his privleges, like eating, treats, walk time, and fun, cuddling time with mommy. That's where we taught him lots of tricks. He learned "stay" by sitting by his dinner area waiting for me to prepare his food. He learned "stop", "heel", "left" and "right" during our walks. We used the gently leader for walks but then switched to harness after he learned those commands and to not pull. When he begs for attention I will not give it to him until he would turn to walk away, I would then call him back and love on him because the pack leader decides when they want to give attention. So if you give attention when they beg for it, it could give them the impression they are pack leader. This is all stuff that I learned from watching Cesar's show that has worked for me.

I think I went a bit overboard with information :lol2: but I had a really hard time with Jake when we were doing old school training and now he is a perfect angel (most times :tounge:) since we've switched training methods.

[organikmom]

[QUOTE=Morkie4;157343]Toby was very aggressive with other dogs but would run from people after the initial charge at them but he would never bite. So we went through some classes using the gentle leader and it worked as far as control and not letting him bite another dog but near the end of the second class, we changed him to a choker and that did the trick. By the end of the third class, he could stay in position off leash between other dogs and not make a sound or movement of aggression. Time, patience, repetition and verbal rewards go a long way in training. I also feel there is not reason not to reward with treats as well but it is a personal decision to do so. We never rewarded with treats in class but I did when outside class.

I have taught all of mine the "no barking" command and while it took a good bit of time with training four at once, it paid off in the long run! I am also a frim believer in being the Packleader rather than let any one of the fluffs decide they are the head of the pack. I never hit a dog for disobedience but do correct firmly when needed. They are quick leaners and doesn't take them long to realize who the leader is and they are so eager to please. I have had to do the submissive roll on two of my fluffs at various times and even then you have to be fully commited in following through to the end. Of course mine are all under 11 pounds and so aren't difficult to handle.

But I think having Puppy attitude is fine but training is still in line for Master Benny. He is just excited to see a fellow fluff! But with time and training, patience and persistance..........with tons of love and rewards (whether verbal or food) is a key to training. Hope this helps![/QUOT
what is the submissive roll is it the same as a 30 minute down where he has to submit 30 minutes laying down at your side?

[organikmom]

I completely agree with Carol

When we got our first dog, Jake, we used the "old school" training. It took us over a year to realize it wasn't working. He was constantly trying to be "pack leader" and purposely disobeying us. Thats when we switched to treating and high praise, ignoring bad behavoir and teaching him that WE are the pack leader not him.

Jake is over 75 pounds and Im 115 on a heavy day so he can drag me around very easily. When my husband deployed, Jake acted out SO BAD and even bit me. I started ignoring Jake when he acted out and only praised him when he did the things I asked of him correctly. He is also a BIG barker (one of the breed characteristics) so when he would bark without me commanding me to I would ignore him completely (I know, hard to do) and eventually he began to ignore those "barking triggers" just like I did. He also knows the command "speak" so "no speak" was easy to teach.

There were so many times that I had to put him in a submissive position like Cesar does (Cesar is my hero). I NEVER laid a hand on him or gave him any command to do so though. Not everyone beleives in it but it helps me show him that I have the control in this house without using force. I also had to make him "earn" his privleges, like eating, treats, walk time, and fun, cuddling time with mommy. That's where we taught him lots of tricks. He learned "stay" by sitting by his dinner area waiting for me to prepare his food. He learned "stop", "heel", "left" and "right" during our walks. We used the gently leader for walks but then switched to harness after he learned those commands and to not pull. When he begs for attention I will not give it to him until he would turn to walk away, I would then call him back and love on him because the pack leader decides when they want to give attention. So if you give attention when they beg for it, it could give them the impression they are pack leader. This is all stuff that I learned from watching Cesar's show that has worked for me.

I think I went a bit overboard with information :lol2: but I had a really hard time with Jake when we were doing old school training and now he is a perfect angel (most times :tounge:) since we've switched training methods.

I want to make sure I do it right and learn to read his language. I t looks so easy when Ceaser does it:D I think I hae the right energy sometimes and but only to find out I don't know what I am doing. Case in point, the :lol2:poop

[JesBred]

what is the submissive roll is it the same as a 30 minute down where he has to submit 30 minutes laying down at your side?

The submissive roll is where you make the dog roll over on its side. He must show his belly to you (this is the position a dog takes to submit to another dog, like when if you've ever witnessed a dog attack one dog usally lays down and rolls over). The dog also cannot stare at you (another sign of disobedience I guess)

I want to make sure I do it right and learn to read his language. It looks so easy when Ceaser does it:D I think I have the right energy sometimes and but only to find out I don't know what I am doing. Case in point, the :lol2:poop

Reading his body language is very important. I agree it looks easy when Cesar does it but remember its a tv show. They are limited to time on tv. In real life it is probably taking WAY longer than they show. Cesar is very patient which I think is his biggest asset when he's training.

[organikmom]

The submissive roll is where you make the dog roll over on its side. He must show his belly to you (this is the position a dog takes to submit to another dog, like when if you've ever witnessed a dog attack one dog usally lays down and rolls over). The dog also cannot stare at you (another sign of disobedience I guess)



Reading his body language is very important. I agree it looks easy when Cesar does it but remember its a tv show. They are limited to time on tv. In real life it is probably taking WAY longer than they show. Cesar is very patient which I think is his biggest asset when he's training.

Hmmm He does growl when there is something in his mouth he shouldn't have and I want to take it away, what do you do?
How long do you hold him in the SR position?

[organikmom]

I did ignore him when he barked at me and he actually turned away in a minute or so which was good. He is getting a bit cocky, speaking of which does the neutering help tame that teenage attitude?

[Morkie4]

Hmmm He does growl when there is something in his mouth he shouldn't have and I want to take it away, what do you do?
How long do you hold him in the SR position?

Well if you have ever noticed, Cesar Milan has a sound he makes when he wants to get the dog's attention; I used it for a while but then decided to have my own sound. When they misbehave, I do the sound and it gets their attention and then I can give them a command.

As far as the submissive roll..........I simply grab them by the back of the neck like a mother dog would do with one of her pups and lay them belly up holding them in that position.........regardless of how much they growl, wiggle, or complain until they are relaxed and submitting to me. Once I feel them relax, I speak calmly to them and repeat good with their name. Then when I am complete sure that they have learned that I am the alpha and they have submitted, I let them go. Usually they will immediately come to my side wanting reassurance that I still accept them or maybe want forgiveness........I really don't know why but they all do it as if to say they are sorry for stepping over the line. But staying calm but in charge when you do the submissive roll is important. They have to know you mean business but not to the point that you would hurt them. Hope this helps.

[JesBred]

Hmmm He does growl when there is something in his mouth he shouldn't have and I want to take it away, what do you do?
How long do you hold him in the SR position?

I don't actually force mine into a SR unless they have snapped at me, which only happened twice with Jake. I stare them down and make them submit to me that way. Mitzy if I'm angry with her will automatically roll over and submit :tounge: but Jake I would have to stare down because he was constantly challenging me

I did ignore him when he barked at me and he actually turned away in a minute or so which was good. He is getting a bit cocky, speaking of which does the neutering help tame that teenage attitude?

I think ignoring him will help alot. If he keeps going on though without stopping that is when I give the "thats enough" or "no speak" command. Ummm with the nuetering it didn't really help mine, I think its more training.